I've Seen This Movie Before - It's Called Kosovo Posted by Michael Cohen

Just watching Obama speak and I can't help but note the eerie similarities to what is being done on Libya - and the NATO war in Kosovo. Obama described a situation in which US and UN objectives in Libya are "well-defined" and focused around "protecting civilians."

Indeed Obama said "we are not going to use force to go beyond a well-defined goal, specifically the protection of civilians in Libya." Forgive me for saying, but this doesn't make any sense

How can the use of force by an international coalition protect civilians if we aren't willing to put troops on the ground? In short, our objective are not well-defined; they are actually defined quite narrowly and are dangerously constricted. We are only willing to use force insofar as it keeps our ground troops out of harm's way. That goal, quite rationally, is being prioritized over the protection of civilians in Libya. But of course this creates a troubling mismatch between tactics and strategy.

And this is literally the exact scenario that happened in Kosovo. We threatened the use of airpower unless Milosevic stopped the ethnic cleansing of Kosovars; Milosevic upped the ante and began massacring innocents; we ramped up the air war in Serbia all the while holding steadfast to our commitment not to put troops on the ground.

In the end of course Milosevic backed down; but does anyone feel the same confidence about Gaddafi being cowed by air strikes? Milosevic could surrender Kosovo and maintain power (indeed in the near-term he did). I'm not so sure Gaddafi can back down and survive. And what if things really go to hell and the country collapses into ethnic and tribal conflict? Then what? Still no ground troops?

This barely feels like a strategy; it's more an temporary measure to stop Gaddafi from reconquering Benghazi, which is well and good. But now that we are on the record saying that we will protect civilians where does that commitment end? If the airstrikes don't work will we sit back and watch, remaining steadfast in our commitment to no ground troops, as Gaddafi massacres his people?

It seems that concerns over the politics of intervention - and the obvious fear of getting involved in a quagmire - is restricting our palette of military options, which means that the objectives laid out by Obama today will be extremely hard to realize, if at all.

Comments

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That's a hard decision. But there's nothing wrong saving peoples lives right?

[Ylber]

Very appropriate assertion. I am from Kosovo and although very grateful for the intervention I was very disappointed the credible threat of ground troops was not included in the intervention package. Because ground troops weren’t used there NATO, the US and EU had to enter an agreement with Milosevic to pull his troops out of Kosovo. This left Kosovo in political limbo for a good 8 years. As a result a resurgent Serbia and Russia are now standing in the way of political and economic development there and although we have declared independence and are recognized by 71 world nations Serbia is continuously blocking our path to economic and political development regionally and globally. If ground troops had been used Kosovo would have been declared independent immediately after the war which would have created a reality on the ground that Serbia would have had to come to terms with. The Balkans would have been a much safer and peaceful place if that had happened. Because that didn’t happen the status quo continues.

If we (I say we because I am now a proud US citizen and tax payer) don’t go into Libya with a clear mandate and a credible intervention package that includes everything including a ground invasion these will be empty threats. Khadafy needs to be deposed and the Libyan people freed, it just depends if the world can stomach the cost of accomplishing this.

[nimh]

This seems somewhat an oddly self-defeating way to make the argument. You argue that the objective of protecting civilians acutely under threat "will be extremely hard to realize," and do so by saying that you saw this movie before, in Kosovo - where, actually, it *was* realized, on the whole.

You may be right that it might not work this time, of course. But referring to having seen it all before with Kosovo just kind of serves to highlight that it might well work, actually.

[Paul]

Just spewing out the same old tripe. Why don't you look at all the independent reports of civilian casualties during the Kosovo war. 10000 killed of which almost a half were Serbs and non-Albanians but with only 15% of the population. Work it out. And now you have a Kosovo run by organ harvesting narco traffickers where the minorites live like something out of the ghettos of WW2. Get a grip on reality.

[Roxy]

Paul, you really must get with the times... or read a book... It seems like your intellect level might suffice with google--ing some Balkan facts. Most of the issues that strangle post-war economic or social growth in the Balkans - particularly Serbia and Kosovo -- are these warped and uninformed ideas of discriminatory-mathematics. It would help if more people were better informed -- including simple people like you.

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[alan]

well you have to keep in mind, throughout the decades of violence that wracked the balkans... Serbia "proper" (still hiding behind the guise of a yugoslavia albeit under a lunatics control for international political reasons) remained untouched throughout, mainly being an exporter of violence to all their former neighbors, the mistake made by the west was turning to "yugoslav" leader Slobodan Milosovic ridiculously enough as the wests goto man in order to somehow end the madness.

and kosovo, despite the pleas, reality on the ground and and the empty accolades and praise of non violent resistance.. was in a brilliant move by the west, tossed aside.

Unfortunately dictators will be dictators, and with dayton came slobodan milosovic and serbias (still hiding behind the guise of yugoslavia)loving attention given squarely to kosovo...we all know how that turned out.

there are many differences between kosovo and libya, and milosovic and Gaddafi. With Kosovo, the west's making the choice of turning aside kosovo in favor of Milosovic as a peace partner came back to bite them, leaving them with no small measure of responsibility.

@paul
honestly, serb apologist propaganda has not done one single thing for either serbia or serbs in general over the past 2 decades. Not one single thing. Do follow your own advice and get a grip on reality.

[Paul]

@alan. What a joke. Accusations of apologist propaganda from the experts. The numbers don't lie. Read 'em and weep. The lies that worked for you in Yugoslavia didnt go quite as well in Iraq, did they?
@roxy. Facts are facts. End of. Talk of reading books, why dont you read Diana Johnstone's 'Fools Crusade' You might learn something instead of sitting on your behind watching CNN.

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Its all about the Protecting civilians.And the Obama said so many things which are very informative.Its such an Awesome blog.Thank you for sharing.

[Paul]

@Roxy Tell me one thing I wrote in my original post that isn't true.

[Paul]

@Roxy - sorry, one more thing. Discriminatory-mathematics? Are you kidding? What happened to Albright's missing 100000 btw?

[Roxy]

@Paul

It seems that you have bookmarked Serbianna.com in your news choices -- and that's all you read. Mass executions of Albanians by Serbian forces in more than 85 towns; More than 450,000 Internally Displaced Persons (IDP's) within Kosovo; More than 1.2 million ethnic Albanians driven from their homes; Over 15,000 murdered; over 120,00 systematically raped by Serb forces. Those are just the obvious figures. And as far as reading is concerned - you may not want to tell people you quote from books written by delusional "authors" who deny events like the Srebenica Massacre because the descriptions didn't quite fit her definition of a massacre or genocide. And just a reminder, all the wars in the Balkans were started by Serbs.

[Roxy]

@Paul

I'm not sure if your Pro-Serb banter is geared against anti-Kosovo sentiment or are you just angry that Libya is getting their behinds handed to them by the same people that leveled the Serbian forces? Deja vou, maybe?

[Paul]

Levelled Serbian forces? You hit 13APCs during the whole Kosovo war. Pathetic. You hit more ovens than anything else.
And look at the reality on the ground. Where are the independent reports of these rapes. there were a few, on all sides but 120000 ,please. The displaced were CAUSED by NATO bombing, fact. You really must get out more. Nobody believes your lies anymore. Bosnia is a failure, Kosovo a blackhole of crime and corruption with drug dealing organ harvesters in power. Well done!

[Paul]

@Roxy, listen you are clearly are very vindictive person. Swingeing embargoes, bombing a small country with everything you got, demonisation of one side, largest refugee population in Europe, attempts to annex a part of the country. The list goes on. Do you see Serbs coming to America to attack your innocents? No. Why dont you go to Fort Dix to do some research.

[Roxy]

No but a TON of Serbs come to America, the land of the free and the home of the brave begging for US Citizenship. Nobody begs for anything in Serbia but to get out as quick as possible. Anti-government protests. Largest senior citizen population in Europe. Have you ever heard the joke about Serbia? Why is Serbia like a Nokia phone? It gets smaller every year. Lol!!

[Paul]

If you lived in Europe you would know what they they think of the Albanians. Oh my! And anyhoo, we're moving North, away from the Albanian scum.

[冷夜]

des everything including a ground invasion these will be empty threats. Khadafy needs to be deposed and the Libyan people freed, it just depends if the world can stomach the cost of accomplishing this.

Posted by: Ylber | March 19, 2011 at 12:00 PM

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[Roxy]

@Paul - Well, as usual the pro-Serb banter has turned into an uneducated hate-level banter. Not interested in your dreamworld Paul. Contributing to blogs is about exchanging ideas and opinions in an informed and educated way. Unfortunately, most blog cites that deal with Albanian and Serbian issues are rife with comments like yours. It doesn't really matter what "Europeans" think about Albanians or vice-versa. Most people don't have a good opinion about Europeans, Serbs or any other country for that matter. And lets face it -- people who know anything about Serbs equate them to the Nazi's.

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[Serbian Bigot]

Libya is not like Kosovo really, but the reasons behind western intervention are: it is not ethno-political warfare, and unlike in Kosovo where the UK was the main proponent of the NATO campaign, the US and French were the biggest supporters of the "humanitarian intervention". But yeah, its still about oil and geo-politics and not about the people. If anything matters its what happens on the ground and on the ground Libya is a lot more likely to turn out like Somalia than Kosovo. Libyans would be incredibly lucky if this war turns out anything like Kosovo and Kosovo was a disaster for Serbs, Albanians, NATO, the UN, the US, and the UK.

@Roxy: I really hate to agree with assholes like Paul but the truth is the truth and these facts are everywhere, people the likes of Noam Chomsky agree: just read his book "failed states", he explains it very clearly and cites all his sources. Its not unusual for politicians or the media to flat out lie, they're not being paid to tell you the truth. Also, as prejudiced as Paul's comments were, he has a point, Kosovo is the poorest "country" in Europe and incredibly corrupt and the KLA was on the terrorist watch list for at least 7 years before NATO "allied" with them. Furthermore saying that people who know anything about Serbs equate them with Nazis is FUCKED UP. I'm not going pussyfoot around my point on this one because anyone who knows anything about Serbs knows that 1/5 of the Serbian population was exterminated in concentration camps during World War 2 at the hands of the Nazis and their allies, I know because that's how my great grandfather died. Furthermore, you're wrong, and if you don't believe me then you clearly don't know the significance of "gotov je", so look it up before you spew anymore racist epithets. Just because you are asheep politically doesn't mean all Serbs are. HVALA.

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