Who Knows What Evil Lurks In The Hearts Of Men? Posted by David Shorr

Leon Panetta's exchange with Senator Burr on torture and ticking bomb scenarios at his confirmation hearing the other day brought to mind an excellent December 2005 Andrew Sullivan essay in The New Republic. The more I think about it, the gloves-off, do-whatever-it-takes argument is more than an attempt to make the ends justify the means, and at some level is even more fundamental than the compelling ethical questions involved. When we talk about prying information out of someone's mind, we are fundamentally at odds with what it means to be human. Not as a matter of ideals, but as a matter of definition. Once you accept the premise that information can be extracted from someone's mind against his or her will, you have strayed from any recognizable concept of humans as conscious beings and are presuming a power that no one has over anyone else.

In other words, aside from the other problems with the ticking bomb debate, I don't think we've taken stock of how twisted and bizarre the whole idea is. One passage from the Sullivan essay gets to the heart of the matter:

What you see in the relationship between torturer and tortured is the absolute darkness of totalitarianism. You see one individual granted the most complete power he can ever hold over another. Not just confinement of his mobility--the abolition of his very agency. Torture uses a person's body to remove from his own control his conscience, his thoughts, his faith, his selfhood.

This is totally separate from any other judgments we might make about a person -- the evil of his acts or intentions. Here we are dealing with the basic fact of his being human. Namely, the only access we have to the contents of his mind are via his own decision to disclose them. If you believe in free will, then this barrier between what he knows and what we know cannot be breached forcibly. Skilled interrogators can tell us a lot about manipulation and and the tricks playing off human foibles, but information can only be coaxed, not pried. The way I see it, this renders the entire ticking bomb debate entirely moot.

Comments

[Dan Kervick]

While there are many excellent reasons to oppose torture, I have to say that Sullivan's particular contention makes no sense to me at all, and on its face seems to express a form of superstition similar to the superstition that taking someone's photo removes their soul.

If you coerce somebody into saying something they would prefer not to say, you haven't literally "removed" anything from them. The thoughts and beliefs that they had are still in them. And while I suppose torturing someone might in some cases be so severe as to "remove" or eradicate a person's conscience, faith or selfhood, I doubt that is generally the case. Many people have survived torture, and still possess their conscience and selfhood. Some even maintain their faith.

Somehow, this approach to torture seems to grab the wrong end of the moral stick, as though the problem with torture is that it is a free speech violation or freedom of conscience violation. I think our focus should be on the horrifying degree of bodily agony produced, not not the supposed inviolable sanctity of the information the victim possess. I am willing to stipulate that in many cases the torture victim has no "right" to keep the information he possesses secret, and has a moral requirement to divulge it. But the fact that we admit he has that obligation to divulge the information does not mean that we can't condemn the barbarism of electrocuting his testicles or sticking a hot metal rod up his rectum to get him to reveal it.

[Fake bags]

If you have a TypeKey or TypePad account

[fake Gucci Bangle]

If you have a TypeKey or TypePad account

Posted by: Fake bags | April 20, 2009 at 11:16 PM

[Gucci Bangle]

If you have a TypeKey or TypePad account

Posted by: Fake bags | April 20, 2009 at 11:16 PM

[cheap coach handbags]

Thank you for your sharing! I like i very much!

[FFXIV Gil]

Are you fighting in Final Fantasy XIV for FFXIV Gil or Final Fantasy XIV Gil?
Can you suffer yourself being called newbie in FFXIV Gil game?
Are you seeking unofficial Buy FFXIV Gil cheats or Final Fantasy XIV guides in order to make Final Fantasy XIV Gil faster?
Can you get millions of Cheap FFXIV Gil in one day?
Even if you know how to farm Buy Final Fantasy XIV Gil you have to prepare enough Final Fantasy XIV Power Leveling first to buy height class Final Fantasy XIV Items, to upgrade your Final Fantasy XIV characters.
FF14 Gil Then why not Buy FFXIV Gil from us?
In Final Fantasy XIV it's the fastest way FF14 Gil,for you to get rich. We are online 24 hours a day ready and 7 days one week to power up your FFXIV Gil accounts with FFXIV Gil. Here is the best place for the Final Fantasy XIV Online players to buy your Final Fantasy XIV Gil.
We are the professional website in FFXIV GIL sale.FFXIV GIL here,We are professional FFXIV Power Leveling online. We update price every single day to make sure we are the lowest in the market.(we don't compare price with scam sites which uses unbelievable low price to deceive.)
Our slogan:Cheapest price, Fastest delivery, Best service! Final Fantasy XIV GIL
In the 2 years we are in this field , FFXIV GILbuilt many business with tens of thousands of customers. They are very satisfied with our service.So if you want to get a log of Cheap FFXIV Gil ,no doubt ,come to our website to buy. Our customer service is ready for you on line now!(WWW,GM MMO,COM Sell FFXIV Gil)

[pandora canada]

Although these pandora jewellery precious metals were mostly used pandora bracelets to represent social and political pandora canada ties in the past, religion was pandora charms actually one of the first reasons.

[wholesale replica handbags]

i like your opinion. 2291 Peek A Boo Bag, m41526 Speedy 30, 1112, m40249 artsy mm, M45257 Messenger Bag, M40156 Neverfull MM, m40144 Tivoli GM, 6089, 211943 sukey, New Jackie