Continuing to Not Get it on Torture Posted by Ilan Goldenberg

The Wall Street Journal has an odd and incoherent (Dare I say tortured) editorial on torture today.  It basically argues that Obama split the baby with the executive order on interrogation and as a result left us less secure.

The unfine print of Mr. Obama's order is that he's allowed room for what might be called a Jack Bauer exception. It creates a committee to study whether the Field Manual techniques are too limiting "when employed by departments or agencies outside the military." The Attorney General, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Director of National Intelligence-designate Dennis Blair will report back and offer "additional or different guidance for other departments or agencies."

In other words, Mr. Obama's Inaugural line that "we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals" was itself misrepresenting the choices his predecessor was forced to make. At least President Bush was candid about the practical realities of preventing mass casualties in the U.S.

This is pure silliness.  Here is a much more rational way to look at what Obama did.  On day one he wasn't ready to make a final assessment of everything having to do with interrogation.  His people haven't had access to all the information yet.  There is a lot to go through and review. 

In the meantime, it's not as though the Army Field Manual is infallible.  However, it is the best standard to employ today across the U.S. government, while a the full review is going on.  This isn't seem unreasonable in anyway and it provides a clear standard while the review is ongoing. 

And if you've been paying attention to Holder or Blair's testimony it looks like there is pretty broad agreement on what is and isn't torture.  It's not as though we're going to see an Obama administration condoning waterboarding or violating the Geneva Conventions.  So, they'll work the details over time and in the mean time there are clear standards and guidance in place.

This is what basic pragmatism and responsible government looks like.  I guess the WSJ editorial board would instead prefer a "decisive" executive who would just make an ideological decision without having all the facts.  But that hasn't seem to have worked out too well over the past eight years.

Comments

[c.l. ball]

There is not "broad agreement on what is and isn't torture." If there was, there would be no need to review what's being done. Rules prohibiting torture could be quickly issued. Holder himself would not say whether "mock executions" were torture or not, although it would seem obvious from the CAT that it is. What does he need to "study" to make that decision? It appears that the Obama admin. is trying to keep a space to maintain abusive methods that the Bush admin. used.

DURBIN: ...Do you agree with the Judge Advocates Generals? Would it be illegal for enemy forces to subject an American detainee to painful stress positions, threatening detainees with dogs, forced nudity or mock execution? HOLDER: I am not as conversant with those techniques as I am with waterboarding as something I really kind of focused my attention on. And so, I would not go so far as to say that those constitute torture. I don't know enough about them.

At http://www.scribd.com/doc/10791973/Eric-Holder-Attorney-General-Transcript-Day-One-January-15-2009

[Fry]

The Geneva Convention and the Military Field Manual were not written to deal with towel-heads who send their people (people, not army) into crowded cafes and blow themselves up along with hundreds of innocent civilians. They were also not written to deal with, oh gosh, let me see, oh yea, nut jobs who fly planes into buildings and behead people. These psychos are so brain-washed that the only effective way of getting them to spill their guts is through unconventional means. Anyone who thinks differently is an out and out traitor to this great country.

And that this issue is even at the top of B. Hussien Obama's agenda shows that he is doing it purely for politics and doesn't give a crap about the people of the United states. Pathetic!!

['08ama]

Imagine this scenario ..

you capture a known terrorist in Miami who has kidnapped your young child and has placed a bomb with a timer by the child's head. He refuses to say where the child is, so you begin to search the Miami area for the child. During this time, you decide it may be a good idea to torture the known terrorist to get him to cough up the info. You begin to administer waterboarding techniques, nudity, standing on one leg for 45 hours, loud music etc... In retaliation, he says the child is in a warehouse in Seattle, but the child is really still in Miami. you send ALL your resources to Seattle thinking the known terrorist is of course, telling the truth. While you're on a wild goose chase in Seattle, the bomb goes off in Miami and your child is killed because you took ALL the resources away and sent them to the wrong place.

taht would suck wouldn't it ?

[Fake Prada bags]

taht would suck wouldn't it

[fake Tiffany Bangle]

fake Tiffany Bangle

[cheap coach handbags]

Thank you for your sharing! I like i very much!

[cheap coach bags]

Great comments! You are so nice, man! You never know how much i like'em!

[watches]

I suppose it is thethickness of Replica Jacques Lemans that insulates the movement.The luminosity of tReplica Jaeger LeCoultre is great; large hands and markers ensure plenty of room for luminous paint, and I seldom found myself wishing the Holotype glowed more brightly. The 12 o'clock arrow on the bezel is also painted and glows like a torch, a nice Replica Levis for timing events in less than ideal light. Esthetically, the yellow dial is so much better then I had guesed it would be. I usually stick to black dials on most of my Replica Longines, but I thought I would give the yellow dial a try and I am very glad I did. It is bright and seems to be a semi gloss that reflects just enough light that it stands out from the PVD case.   The bracelet Replica Mont Blanc the case in every way. It is thick, solid, quiet, smooth, and didn't pull a single hair from my wrist. All of the links are screwed together so sizing the bracelet is Replica Movado. A quick word of warning: the screws do not seem especially tight from the factory so I recommend sizing he bracelet then tightening each link completely (my failure to do so cost me a tiny screw). You might even consider a little Loctite 242 (Replica Omega). The fold over clasp has a push button release, and has a very secure fliplock. The end links are solid and secured by 24mm screws.The packaging on the Holotype is far more then one would expect. My unit shipped in at tan colored faux leather travel case that houses the watch, warranty card, manual, tools, rubber strap, and polishing cloth.

[FFXIV Gil]

Are you fighting in Final Fantasy XIV for FFXIV Gil or Final Fantasy XIV Gil?
Can you suffer yourself being called newbie in FFXIV Gil game?
Are you seeking unofficial Buy FFXIV Gil cheats or Final Fantasy XIV guides in order to make Final Fantasy XIV Gil faster?
Can you get millions of Cheap FFXIV Gil in one day?
Even if you know how to farm Buy Final Fantasy XIV Gil you have to prepare enough Final Fantasy XIV Power Leveling first to buy height class Final Fantasy XIV Items, to upgrade your Final Fantasy XIV characters.
FF14 Gil Then why not Buy FFXIV Gil from us?
In Final Fantasy XIV it's the fastest way FF14 Gil,for you to get rich. We are online 24 hours a day ready and 7 days one week to power up your FFXIV Gil accounts with FFXIV Gil. Here is the best place for the Final Fantasy XIV Online players to buy your Final Fantasy XIV Gil.
We are the professional website in FFXIV GIL sale.FFXIV GIL here,We are professional FFXIV Power Leveling online. We update price every single day to make sure we are the lowest in the market.(we don't compare price with scam sites which uses unbelievable low price to deceive.)
Our slogan:Cheapest price, Fastest delivery, Best service! Final Fantasy XIV GIL
In the 2 years we are in this field , FFXIV GILbuilt many business with tens of thousands of customers. They are very satisfied with our service.So if you want to get a log of Cheap FFXIV Gil ,no doubt ,come to our website to buy. Our customer service is ready for you on line now!(WWW,GM MMO,COM Sell FFXIV Gil)

[3g modem]

well! i like this interesting post,thank you your sharing!

[explosion proof light]

Iwiss Electric mainly manufacturer explosion-proof fixed professional light, such as flood light, spotlight, dome lamp, ceiling lamp, full plastic fluorescence light, anti-dazzle light, and low carbon light suppliers.

[cheap ugg boots]

We are the professional website in FFXIV GIL sale.FFXIV GIL here,

[Doll Penny]

I want iphone 4 white as my christmas present!

[wholesale replica handbags]

i like your opinion. 2291 Peek A Boo Bag, m41526 Speedy 30, 1112, m40249 artsy mm, M45257 Messenger Bag, M40156 Neverfull MM, m40144 Tivoli GM, 6089, 211943 sukey, New Jackie

[Air Yeezy Shoes]

The nomination of the winner depends on the capability and spirit of the personality to finish the race.I like the post very much as it contain informative in knowledge.I like pics of Chelsea shares of the beauty of running in Madison, Wisconsin.I want to congratulate the winner for the nomination race.I want to know suggestion from others.