Was Kos Questioner a Military Plant? Posted by Lorelei Kelly

I was just informed that the guy in uniform this morning.....the one who posed a question to the panel about Progressives and the Military..... was a plant from the Right Wing....one Michelle Malkin to be specific, who has a blog called hot airbags or something self-referential like that.

More on this later. If this is true, it represents the most egregious, ugly, shameful and anti-American tactic I've ever witnessed in my own experience of studying and trying to improve US civil-military relations.
I'm not going to link to her blog, which I just checked out...and indeed, she's accusing the conference of stifling dissent. QED Malkin, you are an idiot.

Comments

[Moira]

He is a plant and kudos to Jon Soltz for reminding everyone that this dude can get in a lot of trouble for expressing ANY political opinion while in uniform. Perhaps Malkin should have thought about how she puts our troops up to violating the UCMJ.

[Don Bacon]

Here's the video.

[Captain Crunchy]

Jon Soltz is a coward and a liar.
That soldier was not a plant and was asking a legitimate question that flew in the face of current Democrat orthodoxy and Jon Soltz had him silenced.
Shame on all of you!

What Wesley Clark was referring to was DoD Directive 1334.01 which states;

It is DoD policy that:

3.1. The wearing of the uniform by members of the Armed Forces (including retired members and members of Reserve components) is prohibited under any of the following circumstances:

3.1.1. At any meeting or demonstration that is a function of, or sponsored by an organization, association, movement, group, or combination of persons that the Attorney General of the United States has designated, under Executive Order 10450 as amended (reference (c)), as totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny others their rights under the Constitution of the United States, or as seeking to alter the form of Government of the United States by unconstitutional means.

3.1.2. During or in connection with furthering political activities, private employment or commercial interests, when an inference of official sponsorship for the activity or interest may be drawn.

3.1.3. Except when authorized by the approval authorities in subparagraph 4.1.1., when participating in activities such as unofficial public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies or any public demonstration, which may imply Service sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.

3.1.4. When wearing of the uniform may tend to bring discredit upon the Armed Forces.

Now unless Kos admits that it’s a totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive organization, the guy was within his rights to be there and in uniform. It’s just a lame excuse to keep people from hearing that current operations have improved life in Iraq, while hiding behind a DoD policy that the Left doesn’t agree with when it suits them.

[Don Bacon]

Captain Crunchy, back in your box for a reading lesson. Your own post belies your baseless charges. The sergeant was violating regs by participating in a political activity while in uniform. Improved life in Iraq? Not for the 1,652 civilians who were killed in Iraq last month, 33 percent more than in the previous month.

[robertdfeinman]

As the popular left becomes more active people should expect to see some of the traditional tactics used against people-power being revived.

The two that have been most popular in recent US history have been infiltrating organizations with police agents (usually the FBI) and the use of agents provocateurs.

Groups have to act as if both these activities are present at all times. The motives of the infiltrators are usually stated in terms of preventing violence, but history has shown that in many cases the violence is promoted by the police. Those in the left present a threat to the establishment because of their support for individual rights and actions that promote grass roots organizing. Those who join the police and military usually have a strong belief in a hierarchal society and find the liberal decentralization unsettling. This gives them the psychological justifications for inciting trouble. It's a version of the ends justify the means.

I'm not commenting on this particular incident since I don't know the facts. Just remember that when someone acts disruptive it is best to consider that the action is motivated by something beyond strong feelings. Then moderate the situation as quickly as possible and marginalize any provacative suggestions.

[Pig Dog Infidel]

"Improved life in Iraq? Not for the 1,652 civilians who were killed in Iraq last month, 33 percent more than in the previous month."

Seeing that the absolute vast majority of "civilian deaths" in Iraq these days are caused by terrorists (working for various Islamic groups) and not the US military, you would STILL rather support Saddam Hussein or Al-Qaeda as long as you felt you could get some anti-Republican mileage out of the situation.
You Kos-Kiddies are disgusting.

Oh well, this story has now made it to the front page of Drudge.
How many million of votes do you think that is going to cost the Dems?
Plenty.

:)

[southbay]

Kos is a hate group on the same ranking as the Ku Klux Klan or neo-Nazi groups.

[Darryl]

What is amazing is that soldiers have spoken up previously at Dittohead gatherings and then been immediately arrested and then court-marshalled for daring to speak out against Bush policy. Now, suddenly we have a soldier wishing to speak out in a politically pro-war fashion and the right-wingers have flip-flopped 180deg. What a joke.

[myra langerhas]

"So they'll prosecute me if I wear my Army uniforms to an anti-war protest? Really?

But that's not the point. As we've seen time and time again, we see military personnel, in uniform, all the freakin' time as backdrops to Republican pro-war events -- including with Mr. 28% -- and there haven't been any prosecutions of those folks.

Marine Cpl. Adam Kokesh has already been discharged. He has every right enshrined under the Constitution, including those of free speech and peaceful assembly.

And anyone that thinks otherwise, quite frankly, is legitimately and objectively un-American."

-Kos

Do you know if this soldier had been discharged or not? Please tell. Soltz was, so who was he to bark out orders?

We support the troops..... by telling them to shut up before they open their mouth.

Don, Crunchy specifically cites regs which belie your claim. Your response? "The sergeant was violating regs by participating in a political activity...". Nice work.

And someone please show me some vid of anyone on the left telling someone in the military to remove their uniform at a march.

We support the troops. Liars.

[James]

Re: Captain Crunchy

If you do some research, as opposed to repeating talking points, you'll see that there is no DODD 1334.01 - it doesn't exist. What does exist, however, is DODD 1334.10, issued 2 Aug 2004, available at http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf.

This DODD is designed to "...update DoD policies on political activities of members of the Armed Forces on active duty..." Section 4 provides the policy itself, but if you look at the examples given in the third enclosure (under "Examples of Prohibited Political Activities"), you'll see that it's impermissible to "Participate in partisan political management, campaigns, or conventions (except as a spectator when not in uniform), or make public speeches in the course thereof," and I think most can agree that YearlyKos is a partisan political convention.

[myra langerhas]

Darryl,

Thanks for the extensive links proving your absurdities.

Robert D,

I dont think anyone understands what the fark you are talking about. The FBI sent the fella to Yearly Kos? Dont drink any more of the Kool Aid, your frothing and gurgling on yer puterz iz cloggin the internet tubez.

-Yours always,
Myra

[Dan Kervick]

Since I wasn't at the convention, and couldn't quite figure out from the video what was going on, I just have a question for Lorelei. What exactly do you mean when you say the guy in uniform was a "plant"? Do you mean he was someone other than he presented himself as being?

[James]

Actually the point ultimately is simply the double standard employed by some members of the left - when soldiers make political statements AGAINST the war while in uniform and are consequently reprimanded the left whines about the military complex and its oppression of free speech and dissenting opinion, yet when a soldier tries to deliver a comment supporting the war suddenly the left and particularly the Kos Kids sanctimoniously wave military regulations in the air and cry foul.

The real question for the left is this: despite what the military regulations allow and prohibit, do you believe military personnel should be allowed to voice their opinions (or in some cases simply provide factual evidence) while in uniform or not?

[Kaptain Amerika]

you are a nutbug lady... 100% real nutz... you should call your site empty-arsenal.org

[robertdfeinman]

Myra:
Usually I don't respond to trolls, but...

1. I said I wasn't commenting on this particular incident, to wit:
"I'm not commenting on this particular incident since I don't know the facts." - learn to read.
2. Insults do not make for enlightened discussion - two point off for rudeness
3. I was citing historical examples, perhaps if you spent a bit more time reading history and a little less foaming at the mouth you my have a clue as to the way the world works.

I suggest you read up on the Black Panthers, the Communist Party of the US, Martin Luther King, Jr., the Wobblies and Eugene V. Debs. I'll skip the labor history that probably would tax you too much, but if you really want to do a bit of reading try the Ludlow massacre and the Haymarket riots.

By the way it was recently revealed that the DoD was spying on the Quakers. Please explain that one.

[Sixth Sense]

Is there any evidence at all to suggest that this guy was a plant? Or is this post just hearsay and speculation?

[SoldierNoLongerInIraq]

I haven't seen the video, nor do I know the Soldier. But if he wore his ACUs or other military uniforms to a partisan debate such as Yearly Kos, then he was in violation of regulations.

As members of the active duty military, it is a breach of regulation and, more important, custom to insert themselves into partisan debate. Joining the military means that we surrender certain rights, including elements of free speech, most especially when that speech would suggest that we speak for the military as an institution on an important policy question.

Frankly, it would have been just as wrong for CPT Soltz, if activated, to use his cachet as an officer to impugn those in his chain of command, including civilians such as the president. This was a problem we had with Lt Watada.

A more fundamental problem those of us in the military have/had is a more complex problem: We're drifing away from our moorings in the harbor of a larger culture. Rather than remaining citizen soldiers, we're becoming warriors.

Frankly, it is a bit much for those in uniform to see so many self-proclaimed "experts" about who failed to spend even a day at boot camp. At one time, of course, it would have been considered shameful for someone to order men to their deaths, should he never had walked the same path.

And yet on this blog and others, so many self-proclaimed "experts" debate policy, most often having never considered seriously in their youth a few years of sacrifice in our military.

My dear friends who continue to count me as a progressive, and promise so earnestly that they shall enterprise to get me out of Iraq so that I can fight in Darfur, miss the point.

Should progressives wish to preserve any sense of decency, they should join the military. Otherwise, they are no better than the "chickenhawks" on the right and their vainglorious utopianism in Iraq.

For those of us who have fought in Desert Storm, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan, often for the most noble foreign policy goals, there is a notion spreading like a germ that strongly questions our self-sacrifice for a generation of political leaders, regardless of party, who felt it best in their youth to forgo a similar term in uniform.

This blog, too often, bears the same watermark. J'accuse.

[AlaABQ]

"I was just informed that the guy in uniform this morning.....the one who posed a question to the panel about Progressives and the Military..... was a plant from the Right Wing....one Michelle Malkin to be specific, who has a blog called hot airbags or something self-referential like that."

Now that's funny! Is this a humor blog? That you really think the guy was a plant makes it hilarious. This must be how you imagined it in the planning stages:

Malkin: "So here's the plan; we send a currently active serviceman to QueerlyKos & get him to ask stuff"

Goldberg: "Yeah! That'll really stir things up."

White House Staffer: "Yeah, and then send him back in civilian clothes. Tee hee! They won't know which thing to accuse him of. You have the administration's support."

Morons. Kos is no more a viable threat to "The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy (TM)" than bologna sandwich. The strength of genuine thought you leftards display reminds me of the I-35W bridge in Minneapolis...

And calling Michelle's site "Hot Airbags", well that was surprisingly thoughtful, Lorelei. While you're at it, why don't you hurl some racial epithet at her? (I think she's of some kind of Asian descent. I know, I know, this would be easier for you if she were Black...) You wouldn't be the first "open-minded liberal" to do so. You should have a shirt that says "Fucking Classy" right on the front, so everyone can know.

[Doug]

Unless people can come back from the dead then the number of casualties hasn't gone down. I suppose Malkin's plant meant the rate of casualties but that's not what he said.

[AlanABQ]

"Unless people can come back from the dead then the number of casualties hasn't gone down."

Well, there was that one incident about 2000 years ago, but it's probably unrelated...

"I suppose Malkin's *plant* meant the rate of casualties but that's not what he said."

Never trust an annual; they only bloom once a year. Oh, wait... this was about "Yearly Kos", not Michelle Malkin, right? Markos hasn't bloomed yet this year, despite all the readily available fertilizer he surrounds himself with.

I'm sure you can identify with that. (the fertilizer part, anyway.)

[Don Bacon]

from Pajamas Media:

Sergeant David D. Aguina stepped up to the microphone at the YearlyKos forum on the panel on “The Military and Progressives: Are they that Different?” John [Jon] Soltz, founder of the anti-war group Votevets.Org, took him to task and silenced him on the grounds that Aguina was wearing his uniform while expressing his political opinions.

“Technically, he was right,” Aguina concedes.

Why did he bother attending a conference and a panel where he knew he wouldn’t be welcome? He had come to a conference attended largely by anti-war and even some anti-military netroots because he said, “This is part of the battlefield.”

He said that the conference-goers had treated him with respect and listened carefully to what he had to say, arguing strenuously against him but hearing him out nonetheless. “There’s quite few people here who are open-minded and will listen. And even if they don’t agree with me, I at least thank them for listening. I’ve dealt with other people who insult me and then walk away.”

“This isn’t something political for me. I have an emotional connection with those people in Iraq.” To illustrate his point, he tells the story of one day while he was on guard duty, protecting a group of Iraqi workers, his command was unable or unwilling to supply him with lunch. “With the little food they had – and I mean little food – they each pitched in some of their own lunch so that I could eat. It’s amazing that 5 Shiites and 2 Sunnis cared more about my well-being than my own soldiers. Sergeant Aguina then took a candy wrapper out of his wallet where he had carefully folded it.
http://www.pajamasmedia.com/2007/08/this_is_part_of_the_battlefiel.php