Debating the Dreznerites Posted by Suzanne Nossel

My list of questions for conservatives over at the Drezner site elicited an avalanche of replies which I am slowly trying to dig out from under.  There's a fair amount of ranting and raving, but reading through the posts one does get some sense of where we can find common ground and where we part ways. 

On anti-Americanism, I'm not sure there's much disagreement on the causes.  I think most progressives tend to think there are fairly low-cost ways of mitigating a  portion of anti-Americanism, and that doing so would make it a lot easier to achieve policy goals. 

On the UN, I think we likewise agree on what most of the problems are.  But whereas most of the Drezner commentators see them as reason to write off the UN (or, at the very least, let loose John Bolton to go after it), progressives place a lot more importance on the organization's upside and believe that, as difficult as it will be to fix, we need to keep trying.

Anyway, some interesting discussions . . .

Comments

[Minh-Duc]

I think the difference on the UN is one side see the glass half-full and the other side seeing it half-empty. I think if we leave out the full or empty adjective and stay with the agreed half, we are in agreement.

[praktike]

you're a mensch.

[Achillea]

I think most progressives tend to think there are fairly low-cost ways of mitigating a portion of anti-Americanism, and that doing so would make it a lot easier to achieve policy goals.

I don't know anyone, self-termed 'progressive' or not, who disputes mitigation of anti-Americanism making it easier to achieve our policy goals. Where conservatives differ is in requiring some actual cost-benefit analysis of these much-vaunted but ill-defined 'low-cost ways.' Please, enlighten us as to your Cunning Plan.

[manoppello]

Low cost ways? Admit that French that Captain Jean Luc Picard is the greatest captain of the Enterprise. Might appease a few of the French. How about disband NATO and turn the military security of Europe over to the EU and the French? But also the Germans... and how many European countries in their heart of hearts would be comfortable with that set up?

Its real simple but not "low cost". Resolve the Israeli-Palestinian crisis, permanently, once and for all. Give Jerusalem to the United Natons to govern as an independent, non-aligned, district, and move the HQ there as first proposed in the late 40', (giving the UN a necessary task). Then tell the Ayotollah in Iran that either Iran changes its policies about exporting revolution and dedicating itself to the destruction of Israel or else.

[rosignol]

Give Jerusalem to the United Natons to govern as an independent, non-aligned, district,

If only the UN was capable of doing that.

I fear the UN General Assembly would be even worse at running Jerusalem than the US Congress is at running Washington DC.

[manoppello]

"I fear the UN General Assembly would be even worse at running Jerusalem than the US Congress is at running Washington DC."

They wouldn't have to "run it". They would just be there to ensure no one "owns it". I am sure the current mayor and the city's political types can manage very well unannexed, not specified as the capital of any specific country. In fact, if I had to guess, and if they could, the would candidly tell you they would be able to run it far better.

[DBL]

Some of you have suggested turning Jerusalem over to the UN. Do you remember what happened in 1967? The UN had soldiers stationed in the Sinai to prevent war between Egypt and Israel. Nasser closed the Suez Canal to Israeli shipping and ordered the UN troops to leave, which they did forthwith. After that little episode, why would any of you think that the Israelis should have any faith in UN security guarantees? It's too ridiculous to contemplate.

No, I'm afraid that the only way to "Resolve the Israeli-Palestinian crisis, permanently, once and for all," is to drive the Jews into the sea, or at least handicap the Israelis sufficiently that the Arabs can do that themselves. Unless you are prepared to do that (and that is precisely what most Europeans seem to want), you shouldn't expect any early "permanent" resolution.

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