Of Democrats, Discipline, and Democratization Posted by Michael Signer

Amen, Heather, Amen.  But the problem goes way deeper than Lakoffian framing.  Democrats need to understand the enemy, and our own organizational problems, if we're ever to get a foreign policy message off the ground.

Former Senator Jack Danforth's piece in the New York Times yesterday was a welcome reminder from deep within the Republican Party that the screeching turn to theologically-grounded policy is by no means normal, and no means right. 

Danforth focuses on the wrenching Schiavo posturing, and the stem-cell issue--but the issue goes to the heart of our foreign policy.

In January, Bill Moyers published an article proving how the Bush foreign policy has been dominated by an almost millenarian evangelical thinking.  This explains the surprise affection for Israel, the almost joyful anticipation of the apocalypse, and the familiar arrogance of the initiated toward the heathenry.

How should liberals differ?  In many ways, Democrats should naturally be more pro-democracy and better at envisioning a newly enlightened world than Republicans.  The basic nature of liberalism (the word, after all, means to free the mind) lends itself better to vision and hope than traditionally hidebound conservativism. 

Democrats, for instance, should be outrunning conservatives on the issue of democratization.  Mort Halperin has co-authored a wonderful new book called The Democracy Advantage: How Democracies Promote Prosperity and Peace, which shows that even the poorest countries are "ready" for democracy, and that the world prospers when democracies grow. 

So why are we so divided, so squeamish, about returning to the vision of global democracy Woodrow Wilson (one of our own) first endorsed?  Aside from the Vietnam syndrome, and basic partisan resentment at being outfoxed (again) by Bush, it all returns to the name:  unlike the theocons, Democrats can be too democratic.  We can't unify around democratization--done right--because we're spread too thin around every danged viewpoint.

We need discipline--a stronger pole for the big tent.  That's why Bill Bradley's piece on our "inverted pyramid" problem was so refreshing, and so right.  The DNC and our party elders (Bill Clinton?) need to negotiate with the powerful Democratic interest groups to ignore their navels for a moment and get on board with a democratization vision, in broad-brush outline, because the stakes are just too high to do otherwise.  It won't be easy--but then politics never is.

Comments

[Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg]

A lot of the "naval-gazing" groups are already coming together with the military, in the form of a credit re-regulation campaign (the military are the most aggresive for pushing for payday lending-aka legalized loan sharking- reform), so the first steps towards working together are forming (the campaign will officialy take off later this summer).

But, which of these gazers do you think are resistent to embracing the military, and why?

[J.S.]

Although I whole-heartedly agree with this post, we must also resist the temptation of over-praising the military and military solutions in an effort to define a robust foreign policy- see:

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2005/03/20050331_a_main.asp

J.S.

http://voicesofreason.info

[NIEL]

Bill Moyers article "proves" that "the Bush foreign policy has been dominated by an almost millenarian evangelical thinking"? Talk about "blind" faith.

If "...Democrats should naturally be more pro-democracy and better at envisioning a newly enlightened world than Republicans",aren't you saying they should be more like Bush?

[Eric L]

I'm fine with democratization as a goal, but I don't think it's productive to talk about the topic without discussing what are appropriate means for democratization. For example, we should still be able to hold this position and still simultaneously keep the liberal belief that war (especially *starting* wars) is not appropriate for just any noble end. If the Republicans (or anyone for that matter) propose that we go to war with country X, and country X is not a democracy and we believe an invasion of country X is possible, are we then required to join the cause because it is our moral imperitive to promote democracy through any means necessary? This is what is left of our retroactive justifications for the invasion of Iraq, and it seems to me to be a radical expansion of the notion of a "just war" if we are to go to war to give countries the type of government they ought to have.

If you were discussing democratization because you intend to use this idea against those of us who opposed the Iraq war and tell us we're not true liberals, well aren't you sneaky but opposition to the Iraq war is perfectly consistent with liberal values. If this post was not intended to have anything to do with that, I agree with you 100%, but no thanks for laying the groundwork for anyone who wants to argue for invading Iran. Either way, can we agree that the means must be as important as the ends in any foreign policy debate?

[Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg]

I agree with Eric, and this is exactly why I started a site devoted to drafting Anthony Zinni to join the Dems. You don't have to be pro-war to be strong, and you don't have to bow down to radical idealists in order to have a national security vision.
http://draftzinni.blogspot.com/

[Mike Signer]

Eric: The question to me isn't whether being against the Iraq War is consistent with liberalism -- I see dovishness (not using this pejoratively) as one of many perfectly logical outgrowths of the generally empathetic liberal heart. Iraq is over and done with. The question is how liberals feel about what was the underlying rationale of the Iraq war all along -- democratizing the Middle East. Now, clearly, this wasn't for purely liberal purposes. The Bush rationale was much more about security than idealism. But, still -- why wouldn't liberals jump all over the ultimate Bush goal of democratization? Why, in fact, don't we claim credit for him having come over to our side?

NIEL, I think democracy comes before party -- I don't really care that Bush, post 9/11, stumbled on what was our idea all along. I just want the best ideas to win. And I suspect that in the process we'll win, too.

[Ellen1910]

Great to see the new blog, but I hope you'll refrain from wasting time looking for some sort of BIG IDEA. We Democrats don't need a new shtick; we need to capture the White House and the Congress.

It used to be said that partisanship ended at the water's edge. That's because both political parties understood that American voters know nothing and could care less about what happens outside the country's borders.

American voters care about the defense of the nation -- and it can't be said often enough, the nation ends at the borders. Americans want to be reassured that the country is so strong that anyone who attacks it will be bombed back into the Stone Age.

Republicans have overextended the country; they've made Uncle Sam into an octopus with its tentacles all over the world. Those tentacles are ready to be chopped off.

If we want to win, we've got to show the voters that Republicans have made the country weak. Remember how JFK helped himself out? Right, he charged the Republicans allowed the Russians to overtake our missile superiority leaving the country weak and defenseless. Very few pointed out the charge wasn't true until after he'd been elected.

As Lippmann rightly said, foreign affairs issues are for elites, only. Us against Them is where elections are won and lost.

[Jon L]

Shouldn't part of this effort be not only developing a separate structure but also working from within the current one? I'm thinking particularly of the decision of Yale Law School and others not to allow military recruiters on campus. It strikes me that an effective way of fostering a greater respect for international law and institutions, human rights, and similar topics is not just to change the minds of current practitioners, but to get some people in there who already believe that in the first place.

It's great to see this website, and similar projects like Truman.

[dred]

The Bill Moyers piece you refer to was based on a fraudulent quotation attributed to James Watt.

The Star Tribune ran a correction.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5232182.html

[Ian Welsh]

Wilson was a disaster whom I would not want to claim strongly as a Democrat myself. Democratization sounds good - but not if it means "forcing other countries to change their government". It's known as sovereignty and everyone is tired of the US meddling with other countries sovereignty.

[Paul Atelsek]

I have to agree with Michael on the problem, but not the solution. The democrats are too fractured. It's like a heart fibrillating--lots of muscle (more voters self-identify as democrats) but no coordination. So, how do we convince people to get under the tent?

I think Michael misinterprets Bill Bradley's article--the solution is not negotiating deals or forming coalitions, its about coming up with big ideas. Bill Bradley seems to be admiring the tactics of some horridly negative people--I'd flee the party if it grew to resemble that kind of pyramid.

It's not enough to say "we need to kick the republicans out of Congress and the White House." I was on Michael Signer's team manning the polls on election day, and all I heard from hundreds of people was "anybody but Bush" (I was in a heavily democratic precinct). Maybe my enemy's enemy is my friend, but NOBODY that day spoke of being attracted to Kerry, a bad omen.

Edwards had it right--appeal to voters with a vision of something positive. Kerry never got his balance and connected with that. The next democratic nominee doesn't have to be frat-boy likeable or a pollyanna, but I'd like to see someone a who can stay on message articulating, in terms joe six-pack can understand, something big and bold to move TOWARD, rather than falling into the "negative pit."

[Don Quijote]

Iraq is over and done with.

Iraq is far from being over or done with. There are over a hundred thousand US troops in Iraq at the present time, the effectiveness of the US armed forces particularlly that of the Army is being destroyed. When do you expects those troops to leave Iraq? Do you have an Exit Strategy? do you have any idea as to what the mid-term consequences of this war are going to be?

[AlanDownunder]

First come human rights, then, if the soil is ready and conditions right, democracy. It can't be imposed - it most grow from within.

Bringing democracy is first and foremost a diversionary neocon talking point. Don't get suckered in.

Just counter nonsense with sense. Every time. As interminably and ubiquitously as the nonsense rears its head.

In Iraq for example don't "me too" on the neocon democracy cover story. Its the human rights, stupid. If human rights can first be protected then perhaps democracy can emerge.

Finally, how about democracy at home first. Democracy is a light that inspires, not a bully that invades. No nation that has a bent media, a Patriot Act and suspect and unverifiable election counts can ever hope to inspire democracy anywhere else.

[Too Kind By Half]

Mr. Signer, you say: "The question is how liberals feel about what was the underlying rationale of the Iraq war all along -- democratizing the Middle East."

If you think that was the rationale "all along," then it doesn't matter if you're a 'liberal' or not -- you are just not paying enough attention to the real world to justify having your opinions taken seriously.

Had "democratizing the Middle East" been the rationale for the Iraq war all along, we could have had a national debate about whether that means (war & occupation) would be relevant to that end (democracy).

That didn't happen, because here on planet Earth, the war against Iraq was rationalized not as an excercise in democracy-promotion, a pitch that in your analysis Democrats somehow failed to sufficiently embrace or to claim as "ours first," but as some combination of justified vengeance for Iraq's involvement in actual terrorism (rewarding suicide bombings in Israel, we were told; assisting the 9-11-2001 attacks, we were led to believe) and preventative action against Iraq's future involvement in more terrorism ('mushroom cloud,' we were told).

Of course, I don't believe that you really think about the Iraq war the way you say you do. It's too hard to believe. You'd have to have been on another planet.

A simpler explanation is probably in order.

You know very well that "the underlying rationale of the Iraq war all along" wasn't "democratizing the Middle East," but since you say it anyway, perhaps your intent is to deceive...

Anyway, from such a deluded premise as yours much may follow, but not much of worth.

[Mike Signer]

Too Kind By Half:

Easy... I think we're laboring under a confusion of chronology -- when I say "all along," I don't mean that liberals SHOULD have known "all along" that democratization was the underlying impulse -- as you point out, the Bush Administration lying about this would have made it difficult. Rather, I meant that because democracy promotion WAS the rationale "all along" (as we've now learned), the question becomes one that you still don't address -- how do you/we feel today about democratizing the middle East, whether or not we were told about it beforehand?

[Too Kind By Half]

I'm sorry, Michael, but are you saying "we've now learned" that the Bush Administration lied about why they wanted to invade Iraq & that the real reason they wanted to do it "all along" was to democratize the Middle East?

I ask because, while I'm down with the "lied" part, you'll have to count me among those who still haven't "learned" that Bush & Co's motivation was really democracy promotion.

I am sure this is more than a game of semantics, however. I will not need to be reminded that the administration has _proclaimed_ an intention to foster democratic government in Iraq and beyond. But that's just a proclamation, right?

Or are we now at the point in the discussion where you say, as you did in November, that Democrats like me are "assuming that our opponents' thoughts, feelings and policies are rooted in the dark soil of Hades?" I hope we're not there yet, as I am not making any such assumption or conclusion.

I am simply asking, On what evidence do you conclude that the Bush team's Iraq war motivation was "democracy promotion?"

If you are insisting that we must assume that our opponents' thoughts, feelings and policies are pure as the driven snow, I'm afraid you've got a tough row to hoe...

[M. Simon]

Uh, you think supporting democracy is a good idea but supporting democratic Israel in a sea of despotism is a bad idea.

I think you may need to do some more work on the issue of supporting democracy.

If you study the issue of the territories since '67 you will find that Israel begged to give the land back to the Arabs in exchange for peace.

So far the Arabs have said no deal.

Why is that?

[M. Simon]

Wilson was a strong supporter of the KKK which was a traditional Democratic position.

Letting all those Negros work and vote was considered an attack on organized labor. So it wasn't just about race hatred. Unions for a very long time were anti-black.

On top of that Wilson worked hard to get America in WW1.

It was in the 60s that the Dems re-defined themselves as the anti-racism party a position which the Republicans (mostly) held for a very long time before that. Abe Lincoln - Republican - ring a bell?

BTW can some one explain why taking out despots by war is such a bad idea? It has been the traditional historical method. You might wish to look into American history to see why there might be an affinity for such methods in America.

[M. Simon]

Alan,

We can see what a failure imposing human rights on Germany and Japan has been.

I agree with you. We certainly don't want any more failures like that.

Ann in the failure of democracy in unprepared Iraq and you will see that the whole American policy on the subject must be revised.

Let us bring the troops home and wait for democracy to bloom in the Middle East. The least we could do is to ask Iran and Saudi Arabia for help in the democracy project. I'm sure they would be at the front of such a movement.

[M. Simon]

We ought not interfere with Sudan's sovereignity.

If the government wants to kill its citizens we ought to send a diplomatic protest note and wait for things to evolve.

Eventually the killings will stop when the government runs out of victims. It is none of our business.

Certainly not worth fighting over.

After all, they are not our kind. Besides it is obvious they are not ready for democracy and certainly not imposed democracy.

[M. Simon]

In any case don't you agree that the Islamic revival going on all over the planet is good for women and non-muslim minorities? The people in charge of the revival certainly think so.

Why would any one think it is a good thing to go to war to extend liberty to women? Where is the future in that?

If they think killing gays is a good idea, who are we to interfere with their religion?

Besides, if Moslems want to opress women and kill gays it is none of our business. It is traditional in their culture. America needs to stop destroying traditional cultures.

The best thing America can do is to stay out of other people's business.

[M. Simon]

You know we could have won in Iraq without war if we had first gotten Saddam to impliment a human rights policy.

He was only killing 10K or 20K Iraqis a year.

How hard would it have been to convince him that sort of thing was a bad idea?

Well any way we need to impliment such a policy with North Korea before a war gets started in that neighborhood. I'm sure the Great Leader loves his people and can be convinced to change his policies.

There is a great need to show the Republicans how it should be done. We could start with North Korea and make fools out of the Republicans.

We should be more like the French and start cutting deals with the leaders of Iran. I'm told they give really good deals to those who don't interfere in their internal affairs.

What the government of Iran does to its citizens is none of our business. It's called sovereignty. We ought to respect it. We could profit greatly by such a policy. France does.

[M. Simon]

Don Q.,

You are so right.

Winning battles against the enemy will destroy any army.

Look at what WW1 and WW2 did to the American Army. Total destruction. And here we are. At it again.

You want proof the American Army is being destroyed? Just look at all the wars that have been started against America since we went into Iraq.

The governments of the world are not fools. They know weakness when they see it. And they will take advantage of it. Any day now. For sure.

[Don Quijote]

Look at what WW1 and WW2 did to the American Army. Total destruction. And here we are. At it again.

Look at what Vietnam did!

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