Defining "Victory" Posted by Ilan Goldenberg

It seems that Dana Perino is arguing that the U.S.-Iraq security agreement means "that the conditions are such now that we are able to celebrate the victory that we’ve had so far."

It's an interesting definition of "victory."  I guess you can define victory as more than 4,000 American fatalities, more than 30,000 wounded, probably hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, millions of Iraqis displaced, $1-$3 trillion in costs to the U.S. economy, an empowered Iran, an unaddressed threat in Afghanistan, and massive damage to America's image around the world. All for a war that did not actually achieve its original objectives - eliminate a WMD threat that wasn't there, eliminate a terrorism threat that wasn't there, and spread democracy throughout the Middle East.  I guess we can define "victory" that way.  Probably wouldn't be my definition though.

Comments

[E. Markz]

What an incredibly dishonest piece. Saddams goons and al Qaeda's thugs have both admitted cooperation and countless hidden WMD programs were reported by Kay and Duelfer and nearly 1000 chemical and bio shells were found in Iraq.

It's funny you antiwar hacks never once mention what Saddam WOULD be doing now if he had been allowed to get out from sanctions and continue harboring al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorists and stockpiling WMD precursors.

Utter shameless intellectual laziness and dishonesty.

[Don Bacon]

Excellent, Ilan, except that I would emphasize that the US has created a new Islamic state closely aligned with Iran and its patron China.

Iraq, crippled by economic sanctions that caused the death of half a million children, was no threat to anyone, had no nuclear or chemical weapons and as a secular state certainly had no contacts with any religious radicals whether Islamic, Christian or Buddhist.

There are some who like to fantasize about "coulda/woulda/shoulda" but those fantasies are merely meant to be a distraction from the facts, which you well summarized.

Calling Democracy Arsenal contributors "antiwar hacks" is particularly grating, since neither part is true, well one part in particular.

[Don Bacon]

What WOULD Saddam be doing now? Probably thinking of attacking Iran again? Oh no, only complete wackos would think of doing that. Like the US and Israel.

[Vince Smith]

Since we're focusing on facts, let's consider the fact that the US has not been attached since 911, and there have been numerous interceptions of subsequent attacks. Bottom line, the war (yes, war is the correct term) against Muslim extremism (al Qaeda) was fought in Iraq at the expense of Saddam's corrupt state. So the question begs to be asked (given the cowardous advantage of 20/20 hindsight) ... "what would have been the strategy of those anti-war hacks (Goldberg & Bacon included)?"

[T. Greer]

Let us dissect this one bit by bit:

"I guess you can define victory as more than 4,000 American fatalities, more than 30,000 wounded, probably hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, millions of Iraqis displaced, $1-$3 trillion in costs to the U.S. economy, an empowered Iran, an unaddressed threat in Afghanistan, and massive damage to America's image around the world."

All war have costs, Mr. Goldberg. You can look at the Second World War as a war that cost us 418,000 lives, millions of Japanese Americans, Japanese, and Germans displaced, $5 trillion (inflation adjusted) cost to the American economy, an empowered USSR, the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the launching point of the Cold War.

Or you can look at the Second World War as a struggle that sought to defeat tyranny and support democracy, despite the costs.

"All for a war that did not actually achieve its original objectives - eliminate a WMD threat that wasn't there, eliminate a terrorism threat that wasn't there, and spread democracy throughout the Middle East. I guess we can define "victory" that way. Probably wouldn't be my definition though."

But the thing is, we have two of your objectives met. The WMD point is conceded of course, but Iraq is no longer a viable staging ground for terrorist organization, and is functioning as a stable democracy. The fact that we (and the Iraqis) have been able to overcome any mistakes made at the beginning of this war and develop a successful resolution to this conflict IS victory.

And yeah, you are a hack if you keep trying to convince yourself otherwise.

~T. Greer

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