Defining "Victory" Posted by Ilan Goldenberg

It seems that Dana Perino is arguing that the U.S.-Iraq security agreement means "that the conditions are such now that we are able to celebrate the victory that we’ve had so far."

It's an interesting definition of "victory."  I guess you can define victory as more than 4,000 American fatalities, more than 30,000 wounded, probably hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, millions of Iraqis displaced, $1-$3 trillion in costs to the U.S. economy, an empowered Iran, an unaddressed threat in Afghanistan, and massive damage to America's image around the world. All for a war that did not actually achieve its original objectives - eliminate a WMD threat that wasn't there, eliminate a terrorism threat that wasn't there, and spread democracy throughout the Middle East.  I guess we can define "victory" that way.  Probably wouldn't be my definition though.

Comments

[E. Markz]

What an incredibly dishonest piece. Saddams goons and al Qaeda's thugs have both admitted cooperation and countless hidden WMD programs were reported by Kay and Duelfer and nearly 1000 chemical and bio shells were found in Iraq.

It's funny you antiwar hacks never once mention what Saddam WOULD be doing now if he had been allowed to get out from sanctions and continue harboring al Qaeda and other Islamic terrorists and stockpiling WMD precursors.

Utter shameless intellectual laziness and dishonesty.

[Don Bacon]

Excellent, Ilan, except that I would emphasize that the US has created a new Islamic state closely aligned with Iran and its patron China.

Iraq, crippled by economic sanctions that caused the death of half a million children, was no threat to anyone, had no nuclear or chemical weapons and as a secular state certainly had no contacts with any religious radicals whether Islamic, Christian or Buddhist.

There are some who like to fantasize about "coulda/woulda/shoulda" but those fantasies are merely meant to be a distraction from the facts, which you well summarized.

Calling Democracy Arsenal contributors "antiwar hacks" is particularly grating, since neither part is true, well one part in particular.

[Don Bacon]

What WOULD Saddam be doing now? Probably thinking of attacking Iran again? Oh no, only complete wackos would think of doing that. Like the US and Israel.

[Vince Smith]

Since we're focusing on facts, let's consider the fact that the US has not been attached since 911, and there have been numerous interceptions of subsequent attacks. Bottom line, the war (yes, war is the correct term) against Muslim extremism (al Qaeda) was fought in Iraq at the expense of Saddam's corrupt state. So the question begs to be asked (given the cowardous advantage of 20/20 hindsight) ... "what would have been the strategy of those anti-war hacks (Goldberg & Bacon included)?"

[T. Greer]

Let us dissect this one bit by bit:

"I guess you can define victory as more than 4,000 American fatalities, more than 30,000 wounded, probably hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, millions of Iraqis displaced, $1-$3 trillion in costs to the U.S. economy, an empowered Iran, an unaddressed threat in Afghanistan, and massive damage to America's image around the world."

All war have costs, Mr. Goldberg. You can look at the Second World War as a war that cost us 418,000 lives, millions of Japanese Americans, Japanese, and Germans displaced, $5 trillion (inflation adjusted) cost to the American economy, an empowered USSR, the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the launching point of the Cold War.

Or you can look at the Second World War as a struggle that sought to defeat tyranny and support democracy, despite the costs.

"All for a war that did not actually achieve its original objectives - eliminate a WMD threat that wasn't there, eliminate a terrorism threat that wasn't there, and spread democracy throughout the Middle East. I guess we can define "victory" that way. Probably wouldn't be my definition though."

But the thing is, we have two of your objectives met. The WMD point is conceded of course, but Iraq is no longer a viable staging ground for terrorist organization, and is functioning as a stable democracy. The fact that we (and the Iraqis) have been able to overcome any mistakes made at the beginning of this war and develop a successful resolution to this conflict IS victory.

And yeah, you are a hack if you keep trying to convince yourself otherwise.

~T. Greer

[cheap Perfect World Gold]

I spent much Perfect World Gold on the gift.
Buy Perfect World Gold for me as present.
Perfect World Silver
Perfect World money make me happy.

[FFXI gold]

Yesterday, my boyfriend gave me a lot of FFXI Giland he told me that the FFXI gold is useful for me to go into the net game. At the same time, the Final Fantasy XI gold is the gift for my birthday and I will buy FFXI Gil to thank him because it is not free for him.

[dd]

I hope i can get Sho Online Mun in low price,
Yesterday i bought Sho Mun for my friend.

[cheap mabinogi]

so they often search where can buy the cheap mabinogi, I think our website is your choice. Many friends told me that in here can buy mabinogi gold, and you will also practice your online games skills.

[Discounts Hermes Handbags]

hope i can get Sho Online Mun in low price,

[fake Gucci Ring]

so they often search where can buy the cheap mabinogi, I think our website is your choice. Many friends told me that in here can buy mabinogi gold, and you will also practice your online games skills.

[replica Gucci Ring]

so they often search where can buy the cheap mabinogi, I think our website is your choice. Many friends told me that in here can buy mabinogi gold, and you will also practice your online games skills

[http://www.best-jewelry.us/bvlgari-jewelry-bvlgari-necklaces-c-1_9.html]

so they often search where can buy the cheap mabinogi, I think our website is your choice. Many friends told me that in here can buy mabinogi gold, and you will also practice your online games skills

[cheap coach bags]

Great comments! You are so nice, man! You never know how much i like'em!

[watches]

If you like analog-digital Chanel Replica Watches, today's review might just make your day. This is the limited-edition A Lange & Sohne Replica, model #9052. Limited to 999 pieces, this seems to be their version of the Omega X-33. Let's start out with the specifications:44mm across, 50mm at the widest point, 15mm thick.PVD-finished stainless steel case and bracelet.Bracelet is three-link, solid, with solid end links, fliplock, and 23mm lugs.Domed sapphire crystal with inner anti-reflective coating.Inner dive bezel, operated by a screw-down crown at ten o'clock.Tritium tubes on hours, bezel, and hands.Reverse LCD display.In an interesting twist: it also has an electronic compass.Like the X-33, the caseback is a soundboard to increase the volume of the alarm.Also like the X-33, the crown is actually a push button; rotating it has no effect.45 month battery.ISA quartz movement.Water resistant to 100m (330ft).Three time zones, countdown timer, alarm, Bvlgari Replica Watches, and my favorite: seconds-only mode.Please read on for the full review.As you can see from the profile, the Blackbird has quite a different appearance than the Luminox Blackout. It's tapered, subtle and considerably more understated. Take a close look at the bezel: it has a tapered profile that I quite like. The Audemars Piguet Replica finish is flat (non-glossy) which combines with the reverse LCD on the dial for a very stealthy look. You can also see in this picture how the lugs curve down around your wrist for a good fit. I did notice that when on bad pavement on a bicycle, the lugs dug in a bit due to the weight of the Rado Replica Watches (175g), so I wouldn't recommend this as an exercise Tissot Replica Watches.The Blackbird has some fascinating design decisions that I don't pretend to understand. For example, the inner bezel is set via the screw-down crown at ten o'clock; well and good. However, on your left wrist, it's quite tricky to operate, requiring removal. It's nice, but you probably won't use it much given that the Tag Heuer Replica Watches has a digital Swiss Rolex ETA Replica and countdown timer, anyway. The bezel does have a tritium marker, though,Baume & Mercier Replica more useful at night.Another oddity is the primary crown: as noted above, it's actually a button only, and unlike the bezel crown, it's not screwdown. I would have expected either a conventional button or a threaded crown. And lastly, there's no analog seconds hand. Seconds are displayed by a dedicated ring of segments on the outer edge of the display. It works, but I do miss the analog hand.Here you can see the sounding board caseback design, very similar to the X-33.

[k247br]

Known as replica chanel replica chanel
Los Angeles' "Ambassador of replica gucci replica gucci
Boogie Funk," D?m-Funk represents the citizens of the Funkmosphere. Headquartered in replica hermes replica hermes
the Leimert Park section of L.A., D?m (pronounced: dame) has been dedicated over the last few years to cultivating a musical renaissance replica louis vuitton replica louis vuitton
rooted in the early-'80s styles known discount handbags discount handbags
as Boogie, Modern designer handbags designer handbags
Soul and Electro-Funk.

[FFXIV Gil]

Are you fighting in Final Fantasy XIV for FFXIV Gil or Final Fantasy XIV Gil?
Can you suffer yourself being called newbie in FFXIV Gil game?
Are you seeking unofficial Buy FFXIV Gil cheats or Final Fantasy XIV guides in order to make Final Fantasy XIV Gil faster?
Can you get millions of Cheap FFXIV Gil in one day?
Even if you know how to farm Buy Final Fantasy XIV Gil you have to prepare enough Final Fantasy XIV Power Leveling first to buy height class Final Fantasy XIV Items, to upgrade your Final Fantasy XIV characters.
FF14 Gil Then why not Buy FFXIV Gil from us?
In Final Fantasy XIV it's the fastest way FF14 Gil,for you to get rich. We are online 24 hours a day ready and 7 days one week to power up your FFXIV Gil accounts with FFXIV Gil. Here is the best place for the Final Fantasy XIV Online players to buy your Final Fantasy XIV Gil.
We are the professional website in FFXIV GIL sale.FFXIV GIL here,We are professional FFXIV Power Leveling online. We update price every single day to make sure we are the lowest in the market.(we don't compare price with scam sites which uses unbelievable low price to deceive.)
Our slogan:Cheapest price, Fastest delivery, Best service! Final Fantasy Xiv Gil
In the 2 years we are in this field , FFXIV Gilbuilt many business with tens of thousands of customers. They are very satisfied with our service.So if you want to get a log of Cheap FFXIV Gil ,no doubt ,come to our website to buy. Our customer service is ready for you on line now!(WWW,GM MMO,COM Sell FFXIV Gil)

[qvod]

很难有发展前途做人体艺术美，看的眼光不同，人也不同
务的受人体艺术是确是很难
做人体艺术这项工作了女so you him
其实有空还不如去看看人体艺术有意思，再不然也可以去浏览下有不错的人体艺术指导，难道看到的古惑仔全集系列要去
short haircutssms jokesshort hairstylessdog groomerswhy

[safdsf]

Smart Phone Parts Leading smart phone parts, PDA Parts, data capture parts, Cell Phone Parts, mobile phone parts, iPhone Parts, LCD screen and digitizer supplier offers experienced,Data Capture Parts, timely, cost competitive, GlobalDirectParts,worldwide logistics support. We are the reliable parts supplier that delivers competitive price & quality assurance,Global Direct Parts, on time.

[led mining lamp]

Specialize in manufacture explosion proof light, including: explosion proof floodlight, led flashlight, spot lamp, led mining light, led searching light with rechargeable battery in China.

[Doll Penny]

Looking for the latest white iphone 4 Conversion Kit? I am just looking for a web to satisfy all my need. Come and take it home!

[Network]

thanks for sharing Sohbet many people are pay more attention to one's swearing than before, especially a watch.Muhabbet.
Perhaps when you went to some place far away Sohbet you must borrow it from friends you can get everything you want in this game Chat money to invest in other industry which will return you good profit. Sohbet when you look at Chat
the surface of the watches viaload great any cool Exsohbet from the city you live in and thought you knew nobody there Egitim Fourth, there were various signs of political conflict among shia. If they split 3 ways or 4 ways, the sunnis and the kurds could often be the Sohbet swing votes in the politics. If they felt they had political clout out of proportion to their numbers, they could settle in Sohbet and do politics and not feel oppressed.

[Chat Sohbet]

Güzel Paylaşım thank you

[güvercin]

This is surely a subject thats close to me so I am very pleased that you wrote about it. The aricle is quite interesting. You seem to be a very skilled writer. short hair

[Chat Sohbet]

thank you